(no subject)

[da]

This afternoon I got email from Cliff Stoll.

Which isn't so weird, because I ordered a klein bottle for somebody (thanks again for the idea mynatt). What's weird is that it's five paragraphs, with at least three personal references from my order form that suggest he hand-crafted it, or else his form-mail program is much better than any I've written.

Comments

klein steins rock

[(Anonymous)]

I've never seen the Klein Stein before. Truly a cool design. You could put hot water in the outer chamber, then coffee in the inner chamber. Presuming you are willing to classify them that way. Topologically they are both the outer chamber, especially the inner one.

If I had a topologist in my life, I would totally order one. I might anyway, next time I have $80US laying around, waiting to be re-purposed.

--fishbot

Re: klein steins rock

[da-lj.livejournal.com]

I was going to get a klein stein, until I realized 1) it would be a real
pain to clean; and 2) the person I was buying it for, doesn't drink beer :)

[mynatt.livejournal.com]

i'm sure he wrote it by hand. after all, he is, as you say, a grade-A nut, in the best possible sense of the term. my friend r6 met him in person after a talk and completely agrees.

[da-lj.livejournal.com]

Having just read r6's description of flying to amsterdam, I find myself wondering if that's the pot calling the kettle... :)

My major serious disagreement with C. Stoll is that (as I recall) he's completely opposed to using computers in K-12 education. The articles I've read by him on the topic contain arguements that were (at the time, for me) more easily refutable than the ones that melted_snowball has come up with in personal conversation on the same topic. Otherwise, yes, he does seem like a perfectly nice nut. :)

[mynatt.livejournal.com]

i might not put the case in such strong terms but i find myself agreeing with a lot of what he writes on that, for example here (http://www.education-world.com/a_tech/tech029.shtml). in general i think our culture thinks computers are more useful than they really are, and spends too much time/money on them. i think they're still too new and shiny for people to really have a firm grasp on what they're good for. maybe in another generation.

[da-lj.livejournal.com]

I think you and I are probably in agreement in principle, and might vary in particulars (such as how far they currently are from usefulness).

I think I've read Cliff Stoll say that he thinks computers will continue to be a detriment to education, indefinitely, which is consistent with the page you pointed to where he didn't think there was any appropriate use for computers for kids.

In general, I agree that "computer literacy" as an end to itself is stupid, and computers themselves are way too expensive. But I see lots of opportunity with $300 PCs or thin-clients, (or $100 HW in a generation), that can be accomplished with today's software and well-trained teachers.

Teachers are currently doing really neat things with computers for data-collection and doing real science with the aggregate data; and the Ask Dr. Math forum (which my sweetie used to volunteer for); and other communications tasks that are made possible by computers that wouldn't be feasible otherwise. Those, I think, are encouraging about computers' current (or future, if you like) usefulness in schools...

The challenges, of course, include teachers who want nothing to do with it (and/or feel threatened by systems that don't put them at centre stage), the expense (for HW, SW, and training), and the legitimate concerns that you and Cliff (and dan and I) have about computers being seen as the shiny tool to end all tools.

In an ideal world, I'd like to be one of those folks who's bringing the computers to where they will be a generation from now (and truly useful).

I got rather burnt out from trying to do so "from the outside" (getting education grants is really tough; and demoralizing to me because it's competing against all kinds of other worthy projects...) and I've not had much success at finding a job doing this in a university setting; but with any luck, this work at the U of W will be one step in that direction.

And now you know my secr3t plan. :)

[mynatt.livejournal.com]

Neat. I used Ask Dr. Math a lot when I volunteered as a math enrichment teacher with a fourth grade class. :)

And best of luck with your secret plan!