Wax-coated Cardboard & Aluminum Soapbox

[da]

Walking back from lunch at the University Plaza, elbie_at_trig & I counted about half a dozen Tim Hortons cups and at least that many pop cans.

Now, I know the Tims cups have a wax/plastic lining, so recycling probably isn't cost effective (though I seem to remember that some western municipality, perhaps Vancouver(?) found the political will to recycle them anyhow). But can anybody explain why there isn't an aluminum can deposit in Ontario?

[Concerning Tims cups: I wonder how many people realize that the year-round discount for using one's own mug is considerably higher than the 1:9 odds of winning a free coffee or doughnut during the "Roll Up the Rim" month. That is, my mug rings in at "medium" but it's 20 oz. ...so, something like 2/3 a free medium in each cup. All things considered, I'd prefer they keep their empty cup, and I'll keep my mug.]

Comments

[kraig.livejournal.com]

They will sometimes give you an empty one to roll up the rim anyway. Depends on the cashier.

I've wondered what the gross environmental cost of a mug vs paper cups is. Paper comes from a renewable resource; my aluminum mug does not. Presumably if I purchase a mug, and only use it two or three times, the gross cost of that is higher than if I'd just used paper in the first place, but at what point does it balance out?

As it happens, I have three aluminum mugs and use at least two of them daily, so I'm sure the cost is now less than if I'd used paper each time, but...

[da-lj.livejournal.com]

They will sometimes give you an empty one to roll up the rim anyway.

Yeah. I've decided not to take 'em, if they offer.

Yes, the paper comes from a renewable resource, but the plastic they coat the inside with doesn't. I don't know what kind of plastic it is, but that's why they're not recyclable.

If I were to guess, energy-to-produce is probably at least proportional to cost on the open market. I think an aluminum can costs 2 cents, and I'd hazard a guess that a good mug might cost 100 times that. A paper cup might have a penny worth of paper, so my guess is roughly 200 uses make a mug more cost-efficient (and hopefully energy efficient too). Leaving aside the energy to wash the mug, which is hopefully pretty low.

I don't even remember when I got my plastic mug. Oh wait, yes I do, it came from a computer conference in 1998.

[quingawaga.livejournal.com]

FWIW I think it's more of a wax coating on the inside of the Timmy's cups rather than plastic.

[da-lj.livejournal.com]

Heh. I would've said the same, but various sources said "plastic and wax":

http://www.theconcordian.com/media/paper290/news/2005/11/23/News/Is.Tim.Hortons.Making.A.Mess.Of.Our.Province-1113475.shtml?norewrite&sourcedomain=www.theconcordian.com

That article describes some interesting student research that suggests that Tims doesn't follow their own code of conduct on waste (promoting reusable mugs, not using disposables for in-store consumption, and so on). And 85% of customers don't know about the reusable mug thingy. Both, which I'd believe is also true locally.

[kraig.livejournal.com]

I frequently see paper cups in-store. I see it more when they're busier; I suspect most stores likely don't have very fast dishwashing (probably somebody gets nominated to check it when they have time).

They could do more to advertise the reusable mugs thing though.

[kraig.livejournal.com]

Those sound like reasonable guesstimates.

I was wondering more about the environmental cost of production though - not money costs. My aluminium mug costs a hole in the ground and everything else associated with mining. Glass or plastic are different but the same, particularly the latter. Metal used in the production of my mug can't be used for something else; with a paper cup (plastic coating aside) you can always replant the tree.

Recycling is a whole 'nother thing: I'm not convinced that it's always The Best Thing To Do, although that's more borne of my suspicion of "golden bullet" solutions than any actual hard data.

I've no doubt that over a time period of sufficient length that Al or plastic cups, or china mugs, are more friendly than continually using new paper cups - but how long does that time period need to be?