Soul

[da]

What's the word "soul" mean to you? What associations does it bring up? Is the word fraught with baggage... smelling partly of brimstone? Does it have deep connection for you? Is it ineffable and abstract? Is it like a Platonic ideal of a thing, not to be pinned down? Is it boring? Is it a handy fiction?

I'd love to have a conversation about that, to the extent we can in an online journal. Anonymous comments are fine. My hope is to have common referents to continue in another post.

I invite you to make your first comment here, that is to say without reading the previous comments before-hand. Of course feel free to read other comments too, and discuss with others, but after your first comment. :) Thanks!

[Edit to add:

I can say: the breadth of peoples' responses is pretty darn cool.

So, I suggested a dialogue. What now?

It would be one thing if we were in the same room, and could look at each other and be clear that we're going to treat this with the respect it deserved. In that situation, I would say we could just ask each other open, honest questions; questions that don't try to convince the other of our own understanding; but help the other person to articulate their truth for us. And take it from there.

We could try something like that. I'd participate. Why don't we try that?

It might go without saying, but I'll say it anyway: you're welcome to not reply to someone's question, or to reply telling them you won't reply (and that's final; challenges are not OK).

]

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/merle_/]

What associations does it bring up?

Unfortunately, when I read this, I immediately thought of word associations and came up with "sister" from that "Moulin Rouge" song. ;-)

Since I was eight or so I have been strongly agnostic or atheistic, so have no particular belief in an immortal soul. That said, I have no explanation for consciousness or for why I feel like a sentient being with choice. So my initial lame answer is that I have no idea.

I have problems with the idea that you are alive for a finite amount of time and then (depending on what you did) you spend an infinite amount of time revelling or doing penance or suffering. That's a dumb reward system. Reincarnation or going around the wheel of life works a bit better for me, except for the obvious population growth -- one would assume a soul could not be split.

And I disagree that one cannot have meaningful conversations within online journals. Heathen! Your soul shall.. erm, something. ;-)

[da-lj.livejournal.com]

Thank you! Lots of this resonates with me too. Except as a kid I was agnostic and eventually decided there was a *something* that kept me from deciding I was atheist, and so on.

I'm replying to everybody with the following: I added a bit to the post, with thoughts about how this might be a conversation with open, honest questions; and also that nobody feels attacked for their beliefs. So please check the post before commenting; I might need to add to it again as we go on. And you're welcome to comment with open, honest questions.

[http://users.livejournal.com/merle_/]

No fears of me feeling attacked. Long ago I discovered that in conversations I could either just nod and not say much or shrug it off if someone believed differently. Work is an exception, because a bad technological choice could affect me directly, but in debates I can always walk away.

[dpolicar]

You imply here that being agnostic/atheistic leads to having no particular belief in an immortal soul. I'm interested in what you see as the connection between those two (or perhaps three) things.

[http://users.livejournal.com/merle_/]

There are two parts to this, "immortal" and "soul". I find it hard to believe that anything is immortal -- and if it is, a few years of sin can easily be made up for.

"Soul", though, is a term I associate with religion, while "sentience" I associate with science. Probably it is my personal take on the word, but if it requires religion for a soul to exist and I do not accept any religions, then there may not be such a thing as a soul.

[dpolicar]

Also, a somewhat tangential point about reincarnation: the population-growth objection presumes that human souls are always human souls, and that souls are eternal in both directions (that is, that there are no "young souls").

Without those presumptions, population poses no particular difficulty... it just means there are more souls incarnated as humans now than there were a thousand years ago, either because they are young, or because they were previously incarnated as non-humans.

For example, there are a number of New Age reincarnation believers who consider themselves spiritually extraterrestrial -- that is, who believe their souls originate elsewhere in the universe and have only recently chosen to incarnate on Earth.

And as I understand it, the traditional Hindu beliefs around reincarnation involve the same supply of souls being shared among humans and other animals.